The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

By Hamish Gill

It’s been a little while since I really began to realise just how much more I favour I hold for a short telephoto lens. Over last summer though it went from being a vague preference to a particularly sticky habit and I found myself almost exclusively shooting an 85mm. In fact, I can trace this longer-lens-appreciation back quite a long way. I have for a long time found composition easier with a tighter frame. It’s just taken me a while to realise to what degree this preference has become a part of my photography.

To me, it feels almost like objective fact that short telephoto lenses are easier to frame with. Lenses wider than normal can take a bit more thinking to create an interesting image, and with anything wider than 28mm the sense of expanded perspective can make framing specifically difficult. If I try to shoot an ultra wide as a carry-everywhere, I can, and do, get shots I’m happy with, but too often I can find myself with big areas of empty stretched foreground or a background that sits too far away from the subject. Moving closer to the subject to remove the empty space doesn’t help either as perspective distortion starts to impact the subject. With a longer lens, the perspective compression has the opposite effect. With very long lenses it’s nigh on impossible to capture any foreground at all, and the background can appear very close to the subject. But, composing an image is arguably more simple as the tighter framing helps remove superfluous elements.

Of course, very long lenses can be just as hard to use for everyday purposes as ultra-wide angle lenses as including any context at all within the frame becomes more difficult. But, just as a moderately wide 35mm lens gives some of the advantages of a wide angle lens without bringing too many of the disadvantages, a short tele such as an 85mm can bring some of the benefits of a longer lens without being so long that the disadvantages have an impact too often.

Oddly – at least to me – 35mm lenses are arguably way more popular than 85s. I do have a feeling that I know why though. A while ago now – probably something like 15 years I’d guess – I had a load of Nikon cameras and was shooting a lot of film as part of my hobby as a photographer. I had a fair few lenses too, though I can’t remember exactly what I had as many of them are a long time sold. I did have a longer Nikon manual focus lens though – I think it might have been the 100mm series-e. Whatever it was, I went out one day with a mate to teach him some of the basics of photography. I’d loaned him one of my manual Nikon cameras and, I guess, whatever Nikon manual focus 50mm I had at the time. I’d put the longer lens on my camera deciding that I would challenge myself to use it exclusively. To my surprise, faced with no choice to shoot the longer lens, I actually found it really easy to work with. But, whilst I remember being aware of this positive experience, I can also remember feeling that despite it being easier, I was worried that given more frequent adoption of a longer lens, I would eventually be faced with the issue of not being able to get everything into the frame. That mindset turned out to be quite a difficult one to shake, and I’m certain I’m not the only one that’s been down that particular cognitive road.

I think it just comes down to the idea that with a 35mm, even if it’s slightly too wide, at least it will be possible to capture everything, or at very least more of the subject. That is to say, the 35mm field of view seems to offer a more versatile compromise as a carry-everywhere solution. And compromise is probably the operative word here, as seems to me that issue of not being able to get everything into the frame that’s perceived with longer lenses is just more of a pervasive concern than whatever issues people might have around the compromises attributed to shooting a 35mm.

In fact, over the years I’ve only really come across one commonly mentioned concern with the 35mm lens as a focal length, and that’s the idea that it’s not quite wide enough, or tight enough, to be useful. But, if you turn that idea on its head, you’re left with a lens that’s neither too wide or too tight. Which is, I guess, why it’s so much more popular as a focal length when compared to short tele lenses such as an 85mm.

I think I’ve previously bought into that consensus too, as despite so often loving my results from a short tele lens it’s also only been relatively recently that I’ve started to realise just how much of a fallacy the issue of not being able to get everything in to the frame is for me. In fact, despite very regularly shooting short telephoto lenses over the years – and always being enamoured with the results – it wasn’t really until I took my now-sold Pentax 77mm on holiday with me a few years ago did I realise just how much favour I held for the short tele, and indeed how much I would shoot one even when I had the option for a wider lens available to me. I took the 77mm and the 43mm and hardly used the 43mm at all.

Cornwall 2020
Taken with the Pentax 77mm

A part of this, I think, is just how close – but at the same time subtlety different – a short tele is to a normal lens. If you read the review of the 77mm you’ll find the first handful of paragraphs to very much amount to the beginnings of the opinion I now hold. In fact, I make one particular comment that feels especially relevant here. To quote myself, “The more I used it though, the more it felt closer to a normal field of view.” I said that when comparing the 77mm to the 85mm Zeiss Batis lens I was (and still am) used to shooting a lot for work. What hadn’t occurred to me at the time was that this is also exactly how I feel about an 85mm lens too. Once mounted on the camera and up to my eye, I somehow feel like I barely notice the framing as being all that much tighter than a 50mm, but at the same time I find it easier compose, easier to isolate a subject, and easier to tell a story.

Of course it’s true that I sometimes need to take an extra couple of steps backwards for some shots, but what’s more relevant to the conversation here is that I have found that I less often have a need to take a few steps forward. And actually for all this waffle that’s all this really comes down to for me. With a short tele – probably anything between 60-90mm – I more often find myself at the right distance to get the shot I have in my head. Perhaps that’s the crux of all this. Maybe a short tele is just the right lens for me. Maybe my photographic eye just sees in that sort of framing more frequently than with any other field of view. Or maybe it’s just a preference I’ve developed through growing use and a personal subjective appreciation for the aesthetics of the results. I don’t suppose it matters either way, what does matter is me getting results I’m happy with, and more often than not – for the time being at least – it’s a short tele lens that gets me there.

Here’s some images from a variety of short tele lenses that I’ve really enjoyed shooting with

Cornwall 2020
Pentax 77mm 1.8 ltd – a faster short tele can give you a nice bit of subject/background separation
Fox in a Neighbours Garden
75mm Samyang – This was a particularly brave fox, but I definitely appreciated the tighter framing.
Majestic Motors Day
75mm Samyang – I have recently discovered that I find that my 75mm Samyang lens really flatters the shape of a car
Meyer 75mm Primoplan Test Shots
Meyer 75mm Primoplan – I remember this as being the exact image I saw in my head before I took it.
Welland Steam Fayre
Nikon 85mm 1.8 AFD – This was an event I only shot 85 and all day long it couldn’t have felt like a better choice. It allowed me the framing I wanted every single photo.
Dorsit Trip Nov 23
Nikon 85mm 1.8 AFD – This was shot at f/8 I think. Plenty of depth of field.
Dorsit Trip Nov 23
Nikon 85mm 1.8 AFD – shot at f/2, with this type of photo, even with a house as the subject, I was able to knock the foreground and background slightly out of focus.

You might note that the last 3 images were taken with the Nikon 85mm 1.8 AFD – this lens is very possibly my favourite lens at the moment. I intend to review it at some point soon…

Thanks for reading

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About The Author

By Hamish Gill
I started taking photos at the age of 9. Since then I've taken photos for a hobby, sold cameras for a living, and for a little more than decade I've been a professional photographer and, of course, weekly contributor to 35mmc.
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Comments

Brad Newman on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 17/12/2023

I have some of my dad’s old gear, including his FM and a Nikkor 105mm f/2.5. The lens had long been a favorite, except when I would go to a car event and 105 was just too much. A friend d loaned me his entire kit, which included a 35mm f/2 which I absolutely love, and an 85mm f/1.4. The cool thing about the 85 for me is how it nearly duplicates the awesome separation of the subject like the 105, but is just *that* much easier to use in closer quarters.
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gsfM on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 15/12/2023

Nice article and photos! I especially like the one of the boat. It has a dream-like quality. I also see things with a mid-tele perspective it seems. I usually shoot with a 45mm on m43 (90mm in fullframe terms) and on film I mostly shoot with a 100mm. 135mm is also a really nice walkaround lens I've come to learn. I sometimes try (and fail) to make interesting photos with a wide lens. The only time I feel slightly comfortable is when I can fill the entire frame with something up close and then its just so distorted that it leaves me thinking "what's the point?". I'm not arguing that a tele lens is objectively better than any other type of lens though. Looking at work from some of my favorite photographers a lot of it was made with a wide lens. It's just another way of communicating I think.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 15/12/2023

Absolutely, well put! And like other forms of communication, some people at better at some than others.

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Hamish Gill on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 15/12/2023

Nice camera that too - at least as I have heard...
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Gil Aegerter on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 14/12/2023

One of my first two Nikkor lenses was the 85mm f1.8 K version. I bought it used in 1979 and still have it -- although it's a bit worse for wear. I got sand in it on a trip along Lake Kariba in Zimbabwe in 1987 and used it until the focus got too grindy and put it aside. Finally, maybe five years ago I finally decided to take it apart and clean it up. Now it focuses great, though the barrel has become so thin that I have to be careful not to squeeze it too hard while focusing to keep from binding the helicoil! I since have bought another pristine K version and ANOTHER K version that has been Ai-ed! So I can use them with DX or FX bodies. Love that length. I have owned AF-D and G versions, but I prefer to manual focus and sold them.
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Wouter Willemse on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 14/12/2023

There is indeed something comfortable about short teles. But owning a AF-D 85mm f/1.8, I can't say that lens really does it for me. Not because it's a bad lens, but because the 105mm f/2.5 exists. To me, a much nicer lens, and especially when shooting film it shares filters with the rest of the lenses (52mm rather than the 62mm of the 85, a filter size shared with hardly any other lens). If one insist on AF, the Tokina 100mm macro is a underrated choice too. That all said, 35mm lens will stay in the bag too. On my FM2, the combination of the 105mm with a 35mm... perfect. Almost makes me not miss a 50mm. Almost. P.S. the 180mm f/2.8 is great, but weight and size make it much more speciality lens to me - nowhere near as portable. I end up using it a lot less and it'll probably go somewhere soon.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 14/12/2023

Which version of the 105 do you have? I have an early one and I’d definitely agree that it’s a lovely lens! Maybe you should let me know if that 180 needs to be rehomed ;)

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Wouter Willemse replied:

Comment posted: 14/12/2023

I have had the AiS 105mm f/2.5 and still have an older Ai-converted of the last generation pre-AI Nikkor-P with the updated optical design. The AiS had the built-in sliding hood (manufacterers: please bring those back!), the older one has just a touch nicer rendering. The 180 will need rehoming, it's a relatively early AF model (non -D), but being in Europe, shipping costs may be a bit an issue?

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Aniello Del Sorbo on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 14/12/2023

The 85mm F1.8 AFD Is such a great lens! I've shot my (few!) best images with it. Same goes for the Olympus 45mm for M4/3 I agree that it boils down to our own photographic eyes and how our minds compose what they see. I, like, you compose (and appreciate) with a subject sharped away from the background. And I prefer the discreet distance of a short telephoto to moving closer.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 14/12/2023

I guess you get a little extra dog with the 45 too. And the compact size. I can see that being a strong combo!

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Andrew L on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 13/12/2023

Great article and examples! I had a similar experience back when I purchased a Nikon D40 (my first serious camera) and followed it up with a Nikkor 50mm f1.8. The crop on APS-C was 75mm, and I really enjoyed it for all-around shooting - only regretted it when I found I needed a wide angle to capture architecture or a wide landscape. The perspective flattening is stronger than a "normal" focal length, while there's still room to get what you need into the photo. It's especially good for singling out a human while still getting their immediate environment, such as what they're interacting with, so it makes for an excellent storytelling lens.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 13/12/2023

Yes, I sort of wish I’d figured this preference out back in the days I was shooting crop sensors with my D70, 300 and S5 pro back in the day.

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Steve Cope on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 13/12/2023

I use short telephotos a lot. Whenever I go out I take one alongside whatever camera I carry. Often I take 35/50/85 or 35/50/100. I have the 60/2.8 Micro-Nikkor G ED, 85/1.8 Pre-Ai, 85/2 Ai, 85/1.8 AF, 100/2.8 E, 105/2.5 Pre-Ai and 105/2.5 Ai for Nikon. I also have 85mm lenses for Pentax K, Rollei QBM and Minolta AF. I have a Leitz R 90/2.8, Tamron AF 90mm lenses for Pentax and Minolta and Tamron SP Adaptall 2 90mm. I also have 100mm lenses for Contax, Minolta (Macro), Olympus, Pentax (AF Macro) & Macro-Takumar. I've just received 3 rolls of the Phoenix film you reviewed recently and I'm trying to decide what combination to take out with me tomorrow.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 13/12/2023

I’ve only just seen this comment, what do you take out in the end? That’s a solid collection of lenses there!

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terry johnson on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 13/12/2023

I was an Army photographer back in the late 60s and my constant companion was my Nikon F and 43-86 zoom.your article brought back why.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 13/12/2023

Oh wow, do you still have the kit?

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Sroyon on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

With my Fuji digital, I take the vast majority of photos with two lenses: an 18/2 and 50/2 (roughly 28 and 75 on FF, as you know). For a while I didn't even have anything in between. Currently I have a TTArtisan 35/0.95, but I'll probably sell it soon. Now that we can use our phones for wide-angle photos, if we're carrying a dedicated camera, I feel a medium tele makes a lot of sense – perspective compression, bokeh and shooting from a slightly more discreet distance. I really like the countryside shot with the 85/1.8 btw!
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

Yes, absolutely! Though funnily enough, the 120mm camera on the iphone 15 pro max is also quite remarkable... albeit with a bit of AI intervention

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Jalan on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

Just for fun I pulled metadata from my digital photography. I use the sames lenses for most of my 35mm film photography so the film numbers should be similar. Over the past 10 years I took only 10% of my photos at less than 50mm. 50-100mm accounted for 53% of my photos. Longer than 100mm was 37%. I do some landscape and a lot of portrait & wedding work. 50mm was my most used lens closely followed by 135mm. I don't use my 85mm much as I prefer the look of the 135mm. I think the 135mm is a short to medium telephoto. I also do large format (wet plate) and use a 465mm lens. This works out to a comparable focal length on 35mm of about 90mm for 5x7in and 70mm for 8x10in pictures. I am a telephoto guy!
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

Increasingly, I feel like I might be one too... I guess that's the point of the whole article, but even looking back at the photos I have shown here I think how much more I like them than other shots of my own

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Frank on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

That 75/1.8 Samyang is very underrated IMO, it's much smaller than any mirrorless 85mm (in fact the only other mirrorless short tele I'm aware of that's as small is the Sigma 90/2.8) yet just as sharp as any of them, with decent rendering; which makes it a great carry anywhere short tele whether it's gonna be your go to or not... The Sigma 65/2 looks really nice too, so much heavier though.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

ooo, yes, I would like to try those sigmas... but yeah, whislt I have the samyang, I can't really justify one

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Mark E. Kosmowski on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

Two years ago I upgraded to a Pentax K-1 Mk II with the 100 mm macro, and 3rd party 28-70 f/2.8 and 17-35 f/2.8-4. I decided to try prime only for awhile and actually haven't ended up putting either of the zooms on the camera yet.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

The 100mm is supposed to be a bit of a gem, right?

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Swift on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

My daily driver is a Fuji X-Pro3 with the awesome Fuji 56mm (FOV 84mm) F1.2 lens. This rig rocks.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

Yeah, when I first heard about those fuji lenses I questioned thier logic of going beyond normal... it makes total sense to me these days. Big though...?

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Steve Boykin on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 12/12/2023

I have to disagree with you on the fox photo. It's the best one. :-)
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David Simmons on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I've long been a telephoto shooter, because with its creamy backgrounds and isolated subjects, it easily sets me apart from the cellphone snapshot crowd. But feeling like it was a bit too easy, I've been disciplining myself to shoot at 35mm to force me to work on composition and framing. I've felt guilty for continually for the impulse to go back to my vintage 50mm f1.7 (75mm on my X-T4) - like some kind of addiction I can't shake - because of how much I love the results, but your piece has invited me to embrace it and not guilt myself for it. Thank you!
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Wendell Cheek on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Good article, good points, no nits to pick! In my early photo days (early 70's) in school, and assisting commercial photographers in Dallas, primes were the only game in town. You could have written this article then, and we all would have agreed with you! By 1980, I was a TV news videographer, and zooms were the only choice.... plus, wide, medium, and long shots were a part of nearly every story. Your story points still held, though. Today, I'm shooting film with the Nikon 28-200mm G lens, from the early 2000's. As an over 70 old fart, it is as light as a couple of primes, and as a mostly landscape guy, I use a tripod for lower light anyway. One point that I notice with the zoom, is that I find my perspective by changing position, and then my composition cropping by changing focal length. Works for me.....
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I must admit, for work, I use a 24-70 a lot... though it might not surpise you to hear that I have found myself using it at the long end a lot!

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Ibraar Hussain on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Great read and so inspirational and refreshing! Wonderful shots too I once was using a similar short telephoto with a Panasonic Lumix - or rather two - a 30mm and 60mm which both on M4/3 became 60 and 120 and thoroughly enjoyed them though I wasn't adventurous like you and stuck to people so fairly vanilla
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I don't belive that for a second, your photography is far from vanilla!!

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Max Tiraquon on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I've always found around 80mm seems to match my vision/field of view/compression whatever you want to call it, never really got on with 35mm until fairly recently and that was only because I stated using as default on my Canon Ixus 70.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Funnily enough, in a previous draft of this post I talked a bit about how easy I also find 35mm when I am shooting a point & shoot camera... it muddied the waters of the article a bit, but it remains true. There is a different mindset at play there though

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Bob Janes on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

When I was young, I was really in to telephotos - shot a lot with a 135 and coveted an 85. When I came back to photography with digital, I seemed to gravitate more to wides... However, I can appreciate a 'longer standard' as well. I had used a Contax G 90 f/2.8 for a while, but more recently have fallen for a Zuiko 85 f/2.0 Very impressive shots btw - that last one makes me strangely hunger for wholemeal bread and butter...
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

HAHA, thanks Bob, weird that... The Contax g is a stunning lens... I just can't abide the cameras. The 85mm C/Y is actually the same formula. I have one of those too

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Terry Allen on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Thoughtful process/article. Currently have the Zeiss Batis 85 on my A7. I've never given it a fair run so before I sell it, I will give it one last chance to thrill me. My memory always goes back to the glorious photos I used to make with my Nikon D700 and Nikon 85 1.8...particularly around dusk. Your article pushes me toward getting another Nikon 85 and seeing how it fits on my D750.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

The batis is an incredible lens!!! Give it a go before you do anything rash!!

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Art Meripol on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

With you all the way here. I have my 70-200 2.8 and use it so much and recently have returned to my 50mm and very excited about what I've shot with it. But when I am working and need to shrink my gear to a single lens the sweet little Canon 85 1.8 is my go-to. I think we all start off looking wide at a scene before mentally cropping and moving to our chosen shot. That mental crop for me seems to be about 85mm. Though I have to admit my eyesight has always been poor and I always thought that contributed to my use of short tele lenses over wide ones.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Interesting, maybe this correlates with the degradation in my eyesight in my right eye... ...

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Eric on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Great post and images. I love and somehow have also sold my Pentax 77mm f/1.8 on. Also really liked and also sold on my FE mount Samyang 75mm f/1 8... I may need to buy that last one back again. It performed wonderfully for a Harlem photo walk a while back... Was recently convinced by folks at my local camera shop to add the Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM to my recent 5D/A2 EOS bender and I am thoroughly enjoying it.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Yeah, I really think the samyang is a bit of a sleeper... it's lovely on the cii too

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Lisa on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I absolutely love your insight on the use of a longer lens. I tend to agree with you and I’m inspired to dust off my 85. I’ve been falling into the trap of looking at 35’s but can’t get myself to love the focal length. I’m inspired to shop what I already own!
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Thanks Lisa, some lovely work on your website!!

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Fer on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I´m heading that way too. In my case it is an FD 50mm 1.4 on a Fuji APSC, so around 75mm eq.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Yeah nice, and can make for a smaller combo using apsc too

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Arthur Gottschalk on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

When shooting my Nikon I carry two lenses: a 24mm and an 85mm. That's all I ever need.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Yep, seems we are not alone in finding this combo to work very well!

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Geoff Chaplin on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I tend to agree. I started with 35mm on an M6 simply because it matched the viewfinder 'best'. Maybe 20 years ago I decided to use the 'boring' 50mm lens, having realised my composition with the 35mm often included too much irrelevant material. I switched to 85mm on my digital body, and often 120mm on my Pentax LX, but overall 50mm suits my current style best, helping me to see the relevant and reject the irrelevant. Nice article Hamish. With wider lenses it's too easy to fall into the trap of getting everything in and failing to identify the subject.
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

Thanks Geoff, Yeah, I really do think wider lenses take more skill... maybe this whole 85 thing is just me being lazy...?

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Simon on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

90mm Gang Gang
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

YES MATE!

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Thorsten Wulff on The Short Telephoto – My Preferred Carry-Everywhere Lens

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

While I pivoted into the 35mm camp, mostly influenced by the Fuji X100 I started using about 10 years ago, my favorite combo used to be two bodies, the 105/2,5 Nikkor balanced by the 24/2,8. Back then I never realized how handy that small tele was. These days I combine the 35mm with the 85 on leasure, with the 17-35 and 80-200 couple are my workhorses. That beloved and surprisingly sharp 105 is in the case, next to the 180/2,8 which used to be my long lens, 40 years ago ;))
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Hamish Gill replied:

Comment posted: 11/12/2023

I really, really (!!) want the 180 afd...!!

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