Datafilm: The Note Taking App Designed For Film Photographers – By Vincent

RW Jemmett replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

I use an app light meter (actually a few different versions) I find them to be very good. I agree it may be good to include within the app and perhaps even load the data as that used by the camera. One feature I would like is to be able to export the data into Lightroom. One issue is that when I receive scanned images they are not in the same order as the negatives. (I guess it would be different if I scanned them myself.

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thank you for your detailed feedback Bob/RW, I truly appreciate! The points you are making are totally relevant and interesting to me. The challenge here is all about speed/ease of use yes. Your idea about voice control is great. Paired with a watch for example, the user would just need to tape 1 button on the watch to start recording (or a "hey siri launch Datafilm" voice action), then speak out loud a predefined sentence like "aperture 2.7, shutter speed 1/800s, flash on...". Then using an algorithm, the app would associate values to labels (aperture = 2.7, ...) and add that to the database. On the other hand I've never been much convinced about voice controls, especially via mobile in an heterogenous environment. I think they raise some tough issues/challenges: - The quality and feasability depends on the environment. If you are in a loud environment, it can be a problem. Or if you are in an environment where you can't/it's not appropriate to talk, same. - You still need to juggle with 2 devices, 1 more actually, headphones - Every one has a phone but not everyone has wireless headphone yet, I guess - I think the algorithm breaking the sentences into pairs of label/values may be doable without much struggles, especially in 2021. However I think that localization/language can be a barrier at a certain point when we want to make it more accessible (ie: for non English speakers). - The sentence format and or order and or clarity or accent/pronunciation etc looks like a big constraint to me - Lets say you just changed lens, and you need to make a sentence which includes : new lens, frame number, aperture, shutter speed, flash, focal lens... It looks like a very long sentence to me, I'm wondering if it would be that handy on a daily usage, even though it seems really cool. I'm not that familiar with voice controls either though, but that being said, the idea is interesting and it's definitely good food for thoughts. I did not think about that option before you mentioned it. :) Using a lightmetter integrated into the app as a "main interface" to capture the data, avoiding manual user input is also interesting. I'm just not sure it would fit most of user needs, and I'm not yet sure how much additional values vs constraints we could get from that. - Users need to interact and input values to the app meter anyways, even though yes, some values may be then obtained automatically, but unfortunately not all of them - The values our meters read are not necessary the value we are using. And if we need to override them.. the speed gain we get from using this approach tend to fade away, and the concept seems to lose all of its purpose. - There may be mismatches between their camera / hand held meter values and their phone app light meter values (which is certainly less accurate). I'm playing devil's advocate here, and it's more about feeding the discussion than criticizing your ideas, which I really find interesting and worth thinking about. The most amazing to me in this journey is how challenging is such a project, even though on paper it may seem like a simple problem to solve. :) It's a tough challenge to make such an app relevant to a vast majority of users. The balance between complexity and ease of use is also hard to maintain. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and for your kind encouragements Bob!

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thank you! And sure feel free to reach out if you have any specific needs unsolved with the current version or thoughts you want to share :)

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thank you Jonathan!

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

I agree and see myself in your words. The fact I just click and then instantly connect back to the current moment is one of the reasons I've switched to analog to never come back to digital. I used to take more pictures than needed, then check the backscreen of my digital camera to verify the shots, reframe if needed etc. Great pictures. Not necessary good moments. Too much manipulation brings you out of what you are living. I am not sure Datafilm should be an app photographers use systematically. At least, not in its current state. I'm not sure it's worth keeping the settings of every single pictures of our rolls. However, for some pictures, for some situations, in case we want to play with some bracketing, or just for beginners who try to master their gear to the point where it becomes an extension of themselves.. then it makes sense.. I hope ;)

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thanks Randy! Definitely, and it doesn't need to be systematic. Hope you'll enjoy it!

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Sorry about that yes, it took me around 5 months to make it happen on iOS only. I'm a product designer but not an mobile developper (even though I have been hacking around since I was young). So I had to spend quite some time learning Swift, SwiftUI and UIKit develop the whole project, database etc. I wish I had more time and ressources so I could raise his Android sibling but unfortunately I don't. You definitely should, the big motivation for me was to be able to combine 2 of my passions (film photography and product design) into a same project. It's pretty fulfilling and motivating. :)

Xiong Chiamiov replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Stephen, digital notebook apps started on Android. Exif Notes is the first and most featureful - you might start there.

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Well noted Randy! :)

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

As for now, Datafilm is only about data recording/input. Data reintegration is a big and challenging topic itself (even though it may seem simple from a user perspective). Hopefully, it will come in the future. Meanwhile I've added export options, but you are right to highlight that they are not much user friendly when it comes to exif merging, unless you are a developper yourself. My plan is to create a native Mac app to deal with that. I know that photoexif has developed a Lightroom plugin. But I'm not that keen on replicating that approach since not everyone owns Adobe licences (they are expensive imho). So it may be something closer to a free native macOS app, possibly taking advantage of iCloud to synchronize and make data reintegration easy. That being said, the current mobile app focused on data input is still a proof of concept. And I would like to refine it as much as possible before jumping to the 2nd big part of the project. For example, long exposures with shutter speeds > 4s are currently not supported. I don't mind personally, I never shoot with a tripod, but lot of photographers do. :) I would like to maintain quality over quantity over time so one step at a time, however you are definitely right, it's THE feature that would at a certain point give a real purpose and additional value to the whole project. Hope that makes sense to you. :) Thank you for your suggest!

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thank you David! Regarding identification, you can override the frame number, add a reference picture and add notes. I think in most cases, one or more of these variables will enable you to identify shots with no efforts, however if it's not the case and you are facing bad experience please let me know. :) Best!

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thank you Nick. You nailed it, in its current state, the project is definitely thought out to be a paper photo notebook replacement. Hope it will fit your needs!

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

I am referring to the hardware in this sentence (the CPU/memory/chipsets in your phone and the smoothness of animations and interactions when using the app). iOS15 is needed because of some technical features used in the app. There is no retro compatibility with iOS 14 because of maintainability reasons (the project is meant to be maintained over time, Datafilm is not a startup with fundings, it's a one man, free and non profit project). It's the same reason as why there is no android version of Datafilm. Sure I could deal with retro compatibility, both iOS 13 and iOS 14 actually. I could even develop an android version too. And I wish I had the time to do that, but I don't :) As a side note, iOS15 is available on all iPhones >= iPhone 6S/SE (so almost every devices not older than 6 years ago). If your phone is older than this or if you are not willing to update your phone to the latest iOS version for some reasons, I'm sorry but you won't be able to use this app. Accessibility and inclusivity are concepts that definitely speaks to me, the app is actually available in 4 languages. But I also have to draw limits and define priorities. Hope you understand and it makes sense to you :)

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Well noted! Thank you for your feedback.

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 14/11/2021

Thank you for your input and encouragement. I agree, there are still improvements to add to the app, it's a proof of concept. We're discussing the voice control option with Bob in the first comment below this article. Im unsure about it's viability however it's definitely an interesting topic to discuss. Even though they may seem old school, notebook pen could be considered as extra devices you have to carry too ;) You may write faster on your notebook than if you were to input the values using Datafilm though. Thank you for sharing your/your friend's experiences, its very valuable to me.

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 15/11/2021

Thank you very much. I hear you and I am sorry about that. It's not like I don't want, it's more about time and ressources.

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 16/11/2021

Hello David, thank you very much for your detailed feedback! - Thanks! Glad you appreciate this detail. - It's actually the opposite. The system was designed to enable users to switch lens from one frame to an other. You setup an initial lens (if you want) when adding a new roll, then after that you can click on the "more" button from the recorder and switch to another lens anytime :) - I am not sure I understand your your third point. The quick recorder (with the frame number, aperture, shutter speed buttons) lets you control the "most common settings" while swiping the scale. And in addition to that, you can use the more button to setup more settings like flash, switch lens, add comment. Like here: https://dribbble.com/shots/16556831-Quick-Settings Isn't it working on your side? - If you add a lens, and set the "Aperture Ring Clicks" (last parameter at the bottom), the aperture scale displayed within the quick recorder will display 1/3, 1/2 or full increments. - I understand your opinion about the reference picture. In your point of view, it's mandatory. But I'm not yet sure the vast majority of users feel the same. I take good note of your feedbacks though and facilitating/improving the speed of this feature may be worth digging around. Thank you for the suggest. - Preview/next frame feature from the editing view totally makes sense! I will check this out. Again, thank you very much for taking the time to share your thoughts David, I find them quite relevant and helpful! :)

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 17/11/2021

Hi Rod, thank you for your feedback. Adding, deleting, or modifying a camera can be achieved through the add/edit film view. From there click on the "camera" row, then touch the 3 dots ... to display the menu related to the camera. From there you can edit or delete. You can also swipe left to delete the camera without the need to touch the dots. Adding, deleting or modifying a lens can be achieved through the add/edit film view as well as the edit frame view (since you can use multiple lenses on the same film roll). From there, same logic applies. 1/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/d18zbiras2kmm6g/IMG_1354.PNG?dl=0 2/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/jn6udxufvofltgi/IMG_1355.PNG?dl=0 3/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/m20nxy387g7tkxg/IMG_1356.PNG?dl=0 4/ https://www.dropbox.com/s/bb8sbuujolwmcv8/IMG_1357.PNG?dl=0 Hope that helps, please let me know if you're facing other issues :)

Vincent replied:

Comment posted: 18/11/2021

Rod, Glad to hear so :) It's not your fault at all but mine. The touch area surrounding the 3 dots seems to be too small and requires a "too precise" touch from the user. I should enlarge this zone to make the experience more convenient and avoid these kind of situations. Regarding the swipe gesture, you can also use it on film rows (to move or delete them) and frames (delete). Thank you again for your feedback, I will improve the experience in a near future.